Echoes in Eternity

This video by Francis Chan is really powerful. He speaks to the arrogance behind certain ways of approaching Scripture... so true.

Do you ever even consider the possibility that maybe the Creator's sense of justice is actually more developed than yours?... See, when we make statements like "Well, God wouldn't do this, would he?", do you understand at that moment you're actually putting God's actions in submission to your reasoning?"

This is a very helpful interview of Rob Bell from the UK (with Adrian Warnock as an opposing viewpoint). I've posted the video of the full interview below, but you can go to the link to find short clips as well. The "Hell" one is particularly eye-opening. It's pretty clear that Bell is in no way an Evangelical, at least if we use the classical meaning of the term. Most of these issues and questions would be rather easily solved if people had a robust and Biblical understanding of election and salvation by grace.

I've had something slowly forming in my mind in regards to the current discussion by Rob Bell and others around the idea of God eventually overwhelming almost everyone with His love and bringing them all into eternal life with Him. Besides the fact that it makes it sound like God is a bit of a creepy wimp ("I'll eventually get you to love me, I'll just outlast you like a stalking ex-wife"), I wonder if it also implies a form of salvation by works (or earned grace, if you will). Aren't ALL people enemies of God in their natural state and equally bankrupt in spirit? Then why would some resist God for eons and others for just hours? If I come to Christ early in life, according to Bell's logic, doesn't that mean I have a better heart and am less an enemy of God than some atheist who takes nearly forever to bend his knee to God? But that's not Biblical. In my fallen state, I am just as much a worm as Christopher Hitchens and other God-hating atheists. It is only through Christ that I stand righteous before God. The only reason I came to God at all was due to nothing in myself but God's work within my hard heart. It seems like Bell's theology and doctrine actually do more to set up a hierarchy of sin and evil than a traditional Reformed theology and ultimately undermines the concept of salvation by grace alone. God chooses some for mercy, He chooses others as "vessels of wrath." AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOME BEING MORE WORTHY OR OPEN TO GOD THAN OTHERS. Paul tried his best to make that clear in Romans, even by anticipating objections to it, yet still people deny it.

I had the opportunity to go hear Rob Bell speak in person last night to a packed (2000 or so people) house. It was an interesting evening. While Bell continued his general taste for obfuscation and avoiding the issue, he did answer a couple questions quite honestly and forthrightly. One, which was similar to one that I had hoped to ask, came from a young man in front of me. In short, the man asked Bell that since he is a "big tent" Christian who claims that there are many good and helpful views and we shouldn't exclude anyone, is his theology big enough to allow for the possibility that one form God's love may take is in sending some "reprobate vessels of wrath" (to use the questioner's term) to hell, as shown clearly in Romans 9 (Romans 9:22 in particular). Bell said no, he won't accept that view. It was a stunning admission. His tolerance of other viewpoints is only for those who accept his doctrinal beliefs (and they are doctrine). And if someone dares to actually read Romans 9 for what it says, that is unacceptable. It was a great question, and an illuminating answer. The spiritual darkness in the place (a Church of Christ sanctuary) was palpable. When the aforementioned person posed his question, I saw smirks and sneers in the faces of the so-called Christian leadership in the front rows, people like Greg Boyd and Tony Jones. "But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise..."

Pray that Bell and those who have swallowed his lies would come to see the truth and know that God is love but also holy. That He is both just and the justifier of all who believe. Flattening God out to a one-note god is making a god that resembles little of what we find in the Bible.

These are two great articles on what makes a truly Biblical doctrine of Hell.

It has become common for Christians to describe hell as our freely chosen identity apart from God. Hell, it is said, is not so much where God sends the wicked, as much as it is what the wicked choose or create for themselves. This is the view famously espoused by C.S. Lewis in The Great Divorce. Lewis argues that hell is our own self-absorption and idolatry let loose for all eternity. Hell is God’s way of saying “Thy will be done” to us when we refuse to say “Thy will be done” to God. Hell is what we get when we choose human freedom instead of divine salvation. The gates of hell may be locked for eternity, but they are locked from the inside. We refuse to give up the hell within us, so hell is what we get around us.

There is an element of truth in all this. As one way to look at hell, the Lewis version can be helpful. It emphasizes that no one in hell is truly penitent. God doesn’t punish people for a few sins in this life and then keep them locked up forever as they pour out their hearts in genuine faith and repentance. No, the damned never turn from their rebellion. They may regret their choices like the rich man in Luke 16, but they never genuinely repent.
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But if that’s all we say about hell we are giving people a massively distorted view of divine punishment. Lewis’ depiction of God’s justice has an element of truth to it, but by itself it is monumentally misleading. Divine punishment–hell, in its eternal form–is not simply what we get because we make poor decisions or decide to live a selfish life. Hell is what we get because God is offended by our sin and punishes it. We see everywhere in Scripture that divine wrath is a curse on the ungodly, not a mere consequence for self-centered decisions. Hell is much more than God simply allowing us to have our own way and to experience all the bad effects of our choices. Hell is God’s active, just, holy wrath poured out on the disobedient.

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They will not be judged for their rejection of Jesus, of whom they have heard nothing... People will be held accountable and judged on the basis of the revelation that God has made of himself to them. And this revelation is unmistakable, unavoidable, and sufficiently pervasive and clear that the failure to respond as well as the turn to idolatry renders them “without excuse.” They will be righteously judged for rejecting the Father, not for rejecting the Son.

Perfect.

Robbed Hell - C.A.S.T. Pearls Presents from Canon Wired on Vimeo.

MSNBC's Martin Bashir did quite the little interview of Rob Bell this week. Bashir himself was interviewed on the Paul Edwards radio program yesterday, and it makes for a really good listen.

This post by Doug Wilson on Rob Bell is really really good.

[T]here is a particular kind of soft teaching that creates hard hearts, and there is a particular kind of hard teaching that creates tender hearts. The unconverted human heart is a slab of concrete, and what is needed there is the jackhammer of grace, and not the feather duster of indulgence. [Theological] Liberals have a reputation for being soft because feather dusters are soft. But feather dusters leave the hearts hard. Conservatives have a reputation for being hard because jackhammers are hard. But conservatives are tenderhearted. Jackhammers break up the slab, and the big trucks of grace haul the chunks away. Then we can break up the fallow ground beneath the slab, seek the Lord, plant a crop and pray for rain (Hos. 10:12)

Grace for sinners is deliverance from wrath. Indulgence for sinners is the realization that boys will be boys and that we are just one or two doctrinal developments away from Grand Rapids being a great place for theologically informed homosex, not to mention those who are straight but not narrow. Keep your eye on the ball, folks. This is about the lake of fire, but more immediately it is about something that rhymes with fire, as countless rock songs would have it -- desire. Why are we talking about wrath all of a sudden? Because the doctrine of God's wrath gets in the way of certain things that are deeply desired.

Kevin DeYoung has written the ultimate review of Rob Bell's new book. Case closed.

At the very heart of this controversy, and one of the reasons the blogosphere exploded over this book, is that we really do have two different Gods. The stakes are that high. If Bell is right, then historic orthodoxy is toxic and terrible. But if the traditional view of heaven and hell are right, Bell is blaspheming. I do not use the word lightly, just like Bell probably chose “toxic” quite deliberately. Both sides cannot be right. As much as some voices in evangelicalism will suggest that we should all get along and learn from each other and listen for the Spirit speaking in our midst, the fact is we have two irreconcilable views of God.

Here we go, a review of Rob Bell's book by the chief Christian book reviewer of our day, Tim Challies.

Bell begins the book with surprising forthrightness: Jesus’ story has been hijacked by a number of different stories that Jesus has no interest in telling. “The plot has been lost, and it’s time to reclaim it.” (Preface, vi)

A staggering number of people have been taught that a select few Christians will spend forever in a peaceful, joyous place called heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better…. This is misguided and toxic and ultimately subverts the contagious spread of Jesus’ message of love, peace, forgiveness, and joy that our world desperately needs to hear. (ibid)

You may want to read that again.

It really says that. And it really means what you think it means. Though it takes time for that to become clear.
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A God who would allow people to go to hell is not a great God, according to Bell, and the traditional belief that He would is “devastating … psychologically crushing … terrifying and traumatizing and unbearable” (pp. 136-7).

God is at best sort of great, a little great—great for saving some, but evil for allowing others to perish. Dangerous words, those. It is a fearful thing to ascribe evil to God.

So what of the gospel? Where is the gospel and what is the gospel? Ultimately, what Bell offers in this book is a gospel with no purpose. In his understanding of the Bible, people are essentially good, although we certainly do sin, and are completely free to choose or not choose to love God on our own terms. Even then he seems to believe that most people, given enough time and opportunity, will turn to God.
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Christians do not need more confusion. They need clarity. They need teachers who are willing to deal honestly with what the Bible says, no matter how hard that truth is. And let’s be honest—many truths are very, very hard to swallow.

Love does win, but not the kind of love that Bell talks about in this book. The love he describes is one that is founded solely on the idea that the primary object of God’s love is man; indeed, the whole story, he writes, can be summed up in these words: “For God so loved the world.” But this doesn’t hold a candle to altogether amazing love of God as actually shown in the Bible. The God who “shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8), who acts on our behalf not so much because His love for us is great, but because He is great (Isaiah 48:9, Ezekiel 20:9,14,22,44, 36:22; John 17:1-5).

That’s the kind of love that wins. That’s the kind of love that motivates us to love our neighbors enough to compel them to flee from the wrath to come. And our love for people means nothing if we do not first and foremost love God enough to be honest about Him.

Unfortunately, this is not unexpected. But it is still heart-breaking... not so much because of Rob Bell's soul (which is important) but because of the millions of souls he is leading astray to a very real Hell. May his words perish and wither so they may yet live.

Doug Wilson has some very helpful thoughts on the topic of Rob Bell and particularly universalism and a doctrine of hell.

I have taught for many years that if the Lake of Fire is literal, then it is unspeakably bad. If it is symbolic -- because realities are always greater than the symbols that represent them -- it is far, far worse than the symbol.

In short, any theology that neglects telling a wicked and adulterous generation that they need to flee from the wrath to come is a theology that is participating in the general iniquity.

Doug Wilson responds to Rob Bell's Universalism from Canon Wired on Vimeo.