tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post5031194626594412978..comments2023-04-11T08:21:41.774-05:00Comments on Echoes in Eternity: Is Rob Bell a Heretic?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post-45459702410495343692009-10-05T10:05:46.169-05:002009-10-05T10:05:46.169-05:00I really like the Jared Wilson quote. What a sad ...I really like the Jared Wilson quote. What a sad commentary it is on the human condition that we find more comfort in undone work for <i>us</i> to do than in finished work that we could never do.<br /><br />BTW, my blog has moved. You can now find me at djwilliams.truebaptist.org.D.J. Williamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261952245281286440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post-89920336219955121612009-10-05T07:33:25.988-05:002009-10-05T07:33:25.988-05:00Darius, I swear I posted a long response to your p...Darius, I swear I posted a long response to your post on Friday. Now its gone or maybe there was a glitch or something. How very frustrating. <br /><br />I really don't have the time to re-post such a lengthy rebuttal, suffice it to say this is where we differ: you take the theological jump from foreknowledge to "control", which essentially negates two distinct biblical elements in the equation - the free will of Satan and the free will of man. If God controls our will, then we no longer have a will and cannot be held responsible for any of our decisions. Did God know that we or Lucifer would rebel against Him? Absolutely, but God is not in the business of creating automatons to glorify Him. <br /><br />It is clear reading through the Old Testament that while mysterious things happen absent any explanation, and while often even tragic things are attributed to God, most often they come as an explicitly stated response to a rebellious act rather than an arbitrary "I'm God so I'm going to kill you because I can do that." By its very nature, judgment denotes a response to the misuse of human will. If judgment results in death, by no means does this qualify as a good thing even if one should go to heaven. <br /><br />The verse about the gain of death should be understood in light of its context. Paul is speaking of a decision as to whether to die and be with Christ or continue living for the sake of the Philippians. In the end, he makes the unselfish choice. Death is no friend; in fact it is explicitly called an enemy (1 Cor. 15:26). And while it may benefit us personally to some extent, it can mean hardship for those who depend on us. <br /><br />Therefore if you or any other father should be diagnosed with a terminal illness, it would be near blasphemous to attribute that do a mysterious arbitrary act of God. To say that God would do such a thing for His glory flies in the face of his very name, Jehovah Rapha. But if God is schizophrenic, we can rationalize just about anything and make God responsible.Chris Anoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post-8699566701397818572009-10-03T01:25:16.167-05:002009-10-03T01:25:16.167-05:00"Satan has no power outside of that which God..."Satan has no power outside of that which God has granted for the time being. And Christ whooped him at the Cross."<br /><br />Amen!<br /><br />I don't know much of Bell, either...but he sounds like a ding-dong.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14503074923110839149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post-25093009378230993412009-10-02T15:35:47.100-05:002009-10-02T15:35:47.100-05:00I would ask you this, Chris: did God know when He ...I would ask you this, Chris: did God know when He created Satan that he would end up being evil? If so, then why did God create him? <br /><br />I'll try to dissect your comment... <br /><br /><i>"Then he made the devil oppress people with sickness."</i><br /><br />In some cases, yes, this is true. Sometimes to punish people, sometimes to discipline them, and other times to get the glory in their healing. As Joseph said, what Satan intends for evil God intends for good. So God sent Satan to work through Judas to betray Jesus, and He blinded the Pharisees so that they would kill Jesus. He did this because He intended the most ultimate of all goods to come of it. <br /><br /><i>"Jesus came that we might have life in abundance."</i><br /><br />You misunderstand that to mean an abundant physical life, when Jesus meant primarily an abundant spiritual life. If He meant a good physical life, someone should have told the early Church, because they were destitute, scorned, and martyred. Guess they didn't get the memo.<br /><br /><i>"God might just decide to kill you."</i><br /><br />Yes, He might, and all the better. To live is Christ but to die is gain, after all. Death isn't a negative, it's a positive. We should pray that God's will is done in our suffering or sickness, not that we necessarily get better (though it's fine to pray for healing if He so wills). Paul did just that with the thorn in his side, and God told him no. <br /><br />Regarding Acts 10:38, Satan is routinely referred to as the lord or master of this world, but he is only ruler because God grants him the power. Satan has no power outside of that which God has granted for the time being. And Christ whooped him at the Cross.Dariusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-38477122.post-40856724957466156332009-10-02T12:14:09.653-05:002009-10-02T12:14:09.653-05:00I don't know much about Bell. I did see a vide...I don't know much about Bell. I did see a video production he made in a Baptist church a few years ago, and I saw him in a TV interview once. Nothing of what I saw during either of those instances would be sufficient for me to make a judgment call on whether the man is a heretic or whatever, but I would like to address one conclusion you have come to about Bell's alleged rejection of sovereignty. <br /><br />This is apparently a conclusion you arrived at based on the following quote: <br /><br />"For a lot of people, dominant questions center around, ‘Why is this happening? Why me? Why now?’ Unfortunately, the religious voice often enters into the discussion at an inappropriate time – ‘God just planned this.’ Really? Your God planned this, not mine."<br /><br />First, I would say that such a sound byte is not sufficient to determine one's belief in God's sovereignty. Second, the logic that God's sovereignty is, in effect, the control of everything poses a number of problems to be reconciled with the Bible. Case in point, Acts 10:38:<br /><br />"...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."<br /><br />To many in the Calvinistic vein of thought on sovereignty (though not all of them), this is how you would be forced to explain this verse:<br /><br />Because God controls everything, that means that he purposefully created Lucifer so that he would be full of pride and become the devil. Then he created human beings and had the devil tempt them so that Adam would fall and rebel against God. Then he made the devil oppress people with sickness. Then he sent his Son Jesus and anointed Him with the Spirit of God so that he could undo what the devil did. Incidentally the same Spirit Jesus was anointed with to destroy the works of the devil actually played some part in the sickness in the first place since He too is God, and God controls all things. <br /><br />And when people indoctrinated with this insanity today get sick, they pray, "Lord, heal me if it be thy will?" because "you just never know". God might just decide to kill you. Jesus came that we might have life in abundance, but God is schizophrenic after all.<br /><br />If I have wrongly stated this concept of sovereignty, then I apologize, but I would like someone to retort with an explanation of Acts 10:38 in light of the view that "God controls everything", or that he is somehow responsible when bad things happen to people.Chris Anoreply@blogger.com